The Waterford Graded School District is having a community meeting to discuss the anticipated budget shortfall for 2010/2011 school year due to state equalization aid cuts to public schools throughout the state.
This will be an opportunity for the community to review the list of proposals that the school administration has provided the board. The community will have the opportunity to provide feedback to the administration/school board at this meeting.
According the the Waterford Post article back in January they expect a lot of school parents to attend the meeting and voice their concern against any reductions in programs/staff. (I am not sure what source the POST used for this article or if this was their opinion?)
The meeting will be held on February 3, 2010 at 6:30 PM in the Evergreen School Cafeteria.
Please do what you can to attend! We need to have our voices heard too!
45 comments:
Dear WTA members, I would like to start a list of ways the WGSD could save money. John has suggested outsourcing the IT function.
I have suggested cutting the administrators contract days to 10 days more than the teachers and the superintendent to 10 days more than that.
What is your suggestion?
Paul B.
This is a great idea Paul...but I can already see the idea bashers whining already.
SO...to you idea bashers...if you are going to complain about any of the suggestions that might appear here...feel free...this is an open dialogue...but PLEASE ONLY DO SO IF YOU HAVE SOME IDEAS / SUGGESTIONS OF YOUR OWN!!!!
An empty suit is an empty suit.
Privatize grounds keeping, maintenance and janitorial.
Guidance Counselors for grade school and middle school students – you can’t be serious.
Eliminate Library media specialists, library aides and technology curriculum integrators.
Reduce and combine the grossly overstaffed "aides" positions.
Eliminate some clerical positions.
Find alternative health insurance – not the expensive WEAC insurance.
Require District employees to contribute 20% of the costs of their health insurance premiums.
Get rid of the "House" system that most parents don't like and get the student / teacher ratio back to the district's policy.
Get rid of the "food court" at the middle school and offer only one tasty well balanced Entrée per day. If the student or parents don't like what is on the menu the child can bring a bag lunch...like my kids do now when they/we don't like what's on the menu for the day.
Sell the land between Trailside Elementary and the Pharmacy Station.
*Privatize grounds keeping, maintenance and janitorial.*
Yes.
*Guidance Counselors for grade school and middle school students – you can’t be serious.*
And now you've fallen off the tracks. Who's responsible for picking up their state-mandated responsibilities (i.e. state standards)? Standard e requires schools to offer these services. Can we reduce? Perhaps, how would you recommend we do that?
*Eliminate Library media specialists, library aides and technology curriculum integrators.*
See above. Standard h covers this one. There is some overlap, as far as I can tell. Perhaps this could be reduced too, but someone will need to pick this up.
*Reduce and combine the grossly overstaffed "aides" positions.*
I imagine you're unable to identify what would be adequate, but realize that there are special education requirements that need to be fulfilled. Aides make a relatively small dent in the budget too.
*Eliminate some clerical positions.*
Like???
*Find alternative health insurance – not the expensive WEAC insurance.*
The board just settled with the teachers. This is pretty much off the table. It might be possible to find an equivalent health insurance provider, but not at the price we're currently paying. Any lateral movement will saddle the district with additional bills we can't handle.
*Require District employees to contribute 20% of the costs of their health insurance premiums.*
See above. You either don't understand contract negotiations or are simply grasping at straws. It's a nice idea, but it won't happen.
*Get rid of the "House" system that most parents don't like and get the student/teacher ratio back to the district's policy.*
"Most parents"? Most parents with whom I've spoken really appreciate the fact that a specific group of teachers meets and talks about their kids regularly. Your second point uncovers your true reasoning...why not just be honest and argue from that perspective? It'd be a shame to see them lose this as it's personally helped my middle child a ton. How many FTEs would this actually pick back up? Two? Three, maybe?
*Get rid of the "food court" at the middle school and offer only one tasty well balanced Entrée per day. If the student or parents don't like what is on the menu the child can bring a bag lunch...like my kids do now when they/we don't like what's on the menu for the day.*
Do your kids actually go to a public school? "Tasty?" Are you serious? I doubt the "food court" (you really haven't been in the middle school, have you?) would much money because of the service provider. It's worth considering, but my guess is the savings will be minimal.
*Sell the land between Trailside Elementary and the Pharmacy Station.*
If it can legally be done, why not? Unfortunately, we won't make much and what we do gain is a short term, one year budget trick (hello, Gov. Doyle?).
Reducing the administration's days make sense. But on the flip side we'd better streamline duties.
Outsourcing the technology admin makes a LOT of sense. Why do we have one of only four or so technology admins in the state? That's $135k in salary and benefits that we could move elsewhere and keep staff that actually works WITH kids.
How about putting off new books for a year or two? (and on that note, why the heck is Jensen still serious about adopting a new math series when that will cost lots of money we don't have?)
How about a discretionary spending freeze for a year? Other than necessary consumables, why do we need to buy new materials?
Eliminate extra-curriculars. Schools are about education, not basketball or volleyball.
Finally, why have these schools not been consolidated? I'm so sick of paying two sets of administrators, two sets of contracts, two sets of bureaucracy, and so on. One system is bad enough, but why on earth do we have TWO?
I too would like them to look at the house system for big savings. If we reduce 3 teacher positions it will be HUGE savings, year after year, after year. I realize my numbers are not exact, but I'd bet there going to be close. Teacher makes 50K per year, 20K in Health Insurance and another 10K for retirement, social security, workers comp, public liability insurance, etc. So 3 teachers a year at approximately $80,000 (total package) = $240,000 a year in savings, and 2.4 MILLION over 10 years, 4.8 MILLON over 20 years. THose are huge numbers.
I see several good ideas that will save money without cutting things like music, phy ed and art that are great outlets for students.
Technology has been a key and very costly priority the past three years. It may be the main reason we have less money to deal with this shortfall.
How about budgeting just for maintaining the technology we have for the next year or so. Let's put a hold on so many high end purchases. Previous to this administration, the tech budget was $100,000-$150,000. What is it now?
That, and eliminating the Technology Administrator position would save a great deal.
Even with some outsourcing and consulting fees for IT it will save, since we are still paying for those things even with an administrator.
Why not put off any curriculum purchase for a year or so. Many other districts have done it.
What about better organizing the reading program? Do we have too many highly paid teachers between Reading Recovery and Reading Specialists?
An increase in insurance fees should definitely be looked at next time around. Where else can you get premium insurance for little or no cost these days?
There is a need for counseling, but can it be better organized? We have counselors, social workers and psychologists. Also, how is this budgeted between regular and special education?
There are plenty of ways to save without taking away from the students. Let's hope that's the focus.
I would like to comment on a few items posted here.
Some great ideas being posted, love it.
I agree with requiring everyone at WGSD who receives insurance to have to contribute more towards insurance. This is how it is for everyone else, why not school district employees also.
Not all teachers are paid $50,000, only ones who have been here for awhile. You should ask new teachers what they make, you would be surprised. Don't assume, you may be wrong.
(And why shouldn't people with BA degress expect to make $50,000?. Is that what non teaching people expect to earn?)
'Grossly overstaffed aides'? Each elementary has only 2 regular part time aides, and that is in library, the rest are special ed aides. Many of these aides work one on one with students.
I like the house system, so don't include me in the 'most people'.
Thank you
I don't think anyone said teachers shouldn't make 50K a year....just pointing out they do. The average is at least 50K a year by the way, many teachers are making well over 50K....again, not complaining, just stating facts.
If you go on the Districts own website, you will see that each school has WELL MORE than two aides (not including special education) and not just for the library. Having just said that, why do we have aides in the library, can't the librarian and teachers help the kids out...we need library aides?
We don't need grounds keepers earning a salary, insurance, retirement, etc. Hire someone to mow the grass and plow the snow. What is the groundskeeper doing right now, today. How about all of last week, the rest of this week, etc.?
I can say for a fact that the website is not accurate and that the only building aides are the library. Please, call the schools and ask if you don't believe me.
Building aides have been given some special ed duties, but also do classroom assistance. There are still several full time aides - not all of them in special ed. Aides are also used for lunch and recess duties.
I wish I knew where you were getting your information. The only full time aides are Special Ed Aides. And there are only a few of them who are full time.
Please call the schools to get your facts straight before you use incorrect information.
Special Ed aides do have recess duties, along with the 2 part time building aides.
The school district has posted some information for the meeting Wednesday night:
http://www.waterford.k12.wi.us/
Hi WTA Members,
It would be nice to get facts about staffing. I requested this information last week. I just received an e-mail from Dr. Nelson saying she had most of the information for me last night, but I left so swiftly last evening that she did not get a chance to give me the documents I requested.
She will have them for the meeting tomorrow. I would prefer more time to look at them.
I was hoping that more people would sign in rather than using Anonymous.
A starting teacher makes about 3/4 the salary of a starting engineer. This is because the teacher does not work the full year.
Most people are required to pay into their insurance program. Almost no one has a pension program that is fully funded by the employer. Salary is only one measure that needs to be looked at.
Please come with your suggestions Wednesday at 6:30
Regards,
Paul B.
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics: As a group, engineers earn some of the highest average starting salaries among those holding bachelor's degrees.
If Paul can't get this fact right, what other facts does he have wrong?
I'm not saying teachers should be paid equivalent salaries to engineers (they shouldn't) but he's flat out wrong.
And again, people, the train with teachers' salaries left the station. The board (headed by Dan Jensen who vowed to cut everything in sight) settled with them a couple months ago. Hard to take ideas seriously when they're not serious ideas.
Looking at the district list, there are reductions of aides and a couple teachers. Glad to see extra-curriculars and increasing student fees on the list.
But what makes me upset is no tech coordinator on the list, very little discretionary cuts, and cuts to programs which will hurt kids.
I would like to see the Technology Administrator position get cut. Currently, he makes a 6 figure salary with benefits and received an 8% raise this year. And as far as I know, no degree to back it up.
And I still have problems with my e-mail's getting to the teachers! Plus my kids are always complaining that the computers at school don't work, they come home to do it on our APPLE!!!!
It seems there is a problem with getting hotmail accounts through. How many others are likely having a problem communicating with the schools?
Yes, the Technology Administrator is a big ticket item that is unnecessary.
There was also no mention of holding off on buying the new social studies curriculum.
Dear Anonymous,
I don't want to have this section of the blog to focus on teachers' salaries but rather cost reductions for the taxpayers.
Salaries and benefits do come up because it is over 80% of the budget.
I do know that I won't be able to retire until I am in my 70s where most teachers plan to retire in their 50s even after having the summers off. We might want to look at the long term costs for the district like the insurance and retirement benefit after teachers retire.
For this thread, lets focus on providing the best education for the students at the lowest cost for the taxpayer.
Regards,
Paul B.
Regarding outsourcing IT for WGSD. I am an IT Director with 20 years of experience and a ton of schooling/training (multiple certificates, one masters degree, two bachelor degrees).
Outsourcing the ONE FTE that WGSD uses for IT is not a cost effective solution. To cover PC's, Phones, Networks, softare, smart boards, web site and such for 4 school and almost 200 users, it would cost well beyond double of what Mr Bui's total compensation would be.
Trust me on this, you can't outsource for less than $175/hr when you look at all that is covered. Sure, you could outsource the Web Site or the phone system, but PC's, network, help desk, data comm, and telecomm would far exceed the potential savings. I have outsourced many projects, for both my church and my company for which I work, and I speak the truth on this.
Paul says: "I don't want to have this section of the blog to focus on teachers' salaries but rather cost reductions for the taxpayers."
But then goes on to say: "I do know that I won't be able to retire until I am in my 70s where most teachers plan to retire in their 50s even after having the summers off. We might want to look at the long term costs for the district like the insurance and retirement benefit after teachers retire."
Ha...that's talking out of both sides of your mouth if ever there was such a thing. The arrogance you show in that post is astonishing.
Hi WTA members and Anonymous,
The district was able to use their list of program cuts to stir up the parents of students and staff members. Each spoke to save their pet program as expected. There were few if any suggestions of how to save many through continuous improvement.
I'm still looking for anonymous to be brave enough to sign in. Its easy, just select Name/URL. URL is optional
Other than the 3rd and 4th posting there is only critisism but no constructive suggestions.
The majority of the suggestions in this blog did not cut programs. Most of the suggestions dealt with outsourcing rather than having staff members for a function.
I need to make the point that the current board increase taxes by 5% last year and are looking to increase taxes another 5% this year. The majority of this increase is to make up the reduction in state funding. The overall budget has increased every year. How may taxpayers received 5% increase last year and are planning to get another 5% next year?
We need to say that we are looking for less of an increase rather than calling it a tax cut.
Anyone that feels we should spend more on schools should get out their checkbooks and donate to their favorite program. I fell $11,000 per student is plenty.
Again, what is your cost saving suggestion?
Paul B.
Come on people, we need to be responsible and save money! How much has been budgeted to replace existing curriculum? Is it true that the math program and the social studies program are slated to be relpaced? Are you serious?! Put off any unnecessary spending now!
"The majority of the suggestions in this blog did not cut programs."
Paul, this represents the sentiment of the community whether you understand it or not. So did last night's meeting.
"The district was able to use their list of program cuts to stir up the parents of students and staff members. Each spoke to save their pet program as expected. There were few if any suggestions of how to save many through continuous improvement."
More arrogance. These aren't pet programs, Paul. These are what makes our schools great -- or perhaps you tuned out the parents (see also: taxpayers!) last night. My child participates in a number of these programs and if these programs are cut, we will choice out to a school that has them. So will others...
Sad that you truly think you represent them or that it's some conspiracy set up by the schools when it's much more than that.
A. Noyed said...
How much spending is too much for you?
Do you have a limit on spending increases per year?
Do you believe there is room for cost saving measures in the WGSD?
If so, what are they?
If not, how do you propose to live in a few years when your taxes eat up ALL of your income...because when the WGSD raises your taxes 5 - 15% each year, and presumably your income doesn't grow that fast - eventually you will be out of money!
So again, what are your suggestions?
A. Noyed said...
You're right A. Noyed we don't want to cut programs, we want to CUT THE FAT. The counselors, aides, library specialists, back scratchers, groundskeepers who don't upkeep the grounds, et. al..
I do agree we need to cut, but I am disappointed that the only things brought to the table were the students programs. And yes, of course everyone wants these to stay in the budget as one or all impact ALL of our students.
But, as I mentioned at the meeting, why wasn't the OTHER area of the budget broken down for review? There could very well be something there that can be cut. This is your school board that chose to cut only student programs, and not review the OTHER part of the budget.
Can we ask the board to review the Other portion and find what we as taxpayers want cut?
Textbooks held off for year is one of the suggestions I read in the posts.
How do we get the board to review the Other?
Cyndy, contact the School Board members directly via emai. I have done this a number of times.
With one click form their webpage you can send a message to all of them at once.
Here is the link..(or click the WGSD link on the WTA main page and go to the school board member area to find the link)
http://www.waterford.k12.wi.us/SchoolBoard.cfm
I am furious with the board for giving the teachers a raise this year when everyone else is losing their jobs or taking pay CUTS. It really is a shame. Nearly all of the other public employees in the area took cuts or freezes for a year or more, yet this board keeps on giving raises to its staff.
If in these dire economic times our board keeps raising taxes by 5% and more what the hell are we in for when the economy turns around?
I was brave enough to put my name on my post, how about you?
The board did not "give" the teachers a raise. They were bound by legal contract to do so. I am confident that none of the board members did that because they wanted to. So before we bash the board on this point, lets realize they also must follow the letter of the law.
Gee, no one has said much on here about losing state funding, the school district wouldn't be looking for cuts if our state would do there share. Maybe letters to our state representives should be sent, and to our governor!!
The board DID give the teachers a raise...it is the school board who signs the collective bargaining agreement (contract). Hello!
Yes they did, but if you were at the meeting on Wednesday, they explained they really had no choice.
Unfortunately, it's true.
"The Board had no choice."
Of course they did...but they were smart enough to realize that the teachers would go to arbitration and the district would be hit hard. Whether you realize it or not, WGSD's teachers are paid below the norm (well below, in some cases) of most area districts. An arbitrator would look at that very unfavorably for us.
Ideas? I've listed ideas which don't cut programs. Yet I don't see Jensen, et. al even considering some of them. I actually think they've made up their mind and Wednesday was nothing more than a horse and pony show. Sad when they promised they would actually LISTEN to the citizens. Quite a few residents will be angry if they do their own thing.
As for ideas, many here have been listed. Ideas that don't hurt student programming.
And why the heck are we remotely considering replacing curriculum with how expensive that will be? Paul...this is your pet project...why the urgency when we simply cannot afford it and the data doesn't support such a rash decision?
After seeing what our district would look like minus this programming, I, for one, am prepared to pay the extra $30 a year the tax increase would have cost.
Silas, just because teachers in other districts are grossly over paid, doesn't me ours should be too....the're already overpaid.
I don't want to hear any of the usual bullshit about taking work home and all of the other nonsense. We all no better than that, and we all know teachers and/or have family members who are teachers...its BS.
They work 8 months of the year, have summers off and teach 4-5 classes a day. Whew...slow down there cowboy.
This last comment really shows what kind of ignorance those who value education for our children are up against.
If you really have friends or family who are teachers, then you'd know that the load of garbage you threw out is just that: garbage. 4 hours a day? 8 months a year? Maybe you only went to school that long, which would explain your lack of common sense and command of the English language.
To the boob from the post above. I can count, can you? Teachers DO only teach 4 or 5 classes a day AND they have 3 months off over the summer, a week each at Thanksgiving and Easter, plus 2 weeks off a Christmas. Oh, I almostg forgot the 5 personal days.
Get a grip on yourself.
Apparently you can't count. A look at the district calendar shows that your numbers are wrong. Same with the personal days: they get 2.
And what difference does it make how many classes they teach? A first-grade teacher only has one class a day. The few teachers with 4 classes have some sections for double periods, so they are teaching for the same amount of time as they always have. Non-teaching responsibilities account for the remainder of their 8-hour workday.
I make a point of getting to know my child's teachers and they are all good people who don't get nearly enough appreciation for what they do. Why do people want to punish them when they do so much for our children?
Personally, I do not want to punish them. Just be realistic. Many families are suffering from layoffs and salary decreases. Why are they guaranteed a raise each year? Does not seem fair.
I think Paul might be right that this conversation should be ways to save money and not bashing. The technology as a whole has been better than ever, I think that was what many of the board members ran on in the last election(especially the website). Since administrative contracts have been resolved(including the tech guy and the curriculum guy)than what other items can we look at outside of what was presented the other night?
I was unable to attend the meeting last week and am reading the blog. The bashing is sad. We need to stick to the facts.
I believe we are reacting to a situation we knew was approaching but ignored the white elephant in the room while continuing business as usual including Administration raises.
I believe we have a root issue of lack of planning which has put the district in a panic of slashing programs than demonstrating responsible budgeting.
I really don't see any "bashing" on here. Seems to me much of what you might call "bashing" is really the uncomfortable truth.
Teachers do have a part time job. Teachers should take a pay freeze or cut like nearly all of America. Teachers should contribute 20% of the insurance premiums, etc.
I's not saying that the teachers don't do a good job. They do. But, it is what it is, a part-time job with extraordinary pay and benefits.
Lets get the classroom sizes back in line with the district policy and eliminate the wasteful positions that will have absolutely no impact on the quality of education. Examples are guideance counselors, principals secretaries, aides, groundskeepers and so forth.
Let's try to also make informed comments.
Part time job? The teachers arrive around 7:30 am and leave after 3:30 pm. How is that considered part time?
Please consider volunteering in a classroom for a day or two. Things have changed since you went to school.
Parents don't parent anymore. Students at the age of 5 are disrespectful and do not listen and cannot sit still for longer than 3 seconds.
Teachers have to teach these children basic manners AND reading, writing and arithmetic.
Saying all that, I still believe they should have had a pay freeze like the rest of the staff.
Salaries are already in place for next year. That is a fact.
Let's move on and come up with other ideas.
There have been lots of good ideas. However, they do not seem to be on the table for consideration by the board and the administration.
The kind of cuts proposed by taxpayers aren't the ones that get parents to rally to pay more taxes to save the programs
As far as technology, yes, it has been brought up to date and that was needed. It was taken to an extreme by how much was done at once and it cost us.
There are three other members of the technology staff that do a great deal in keeping things running for far less than Mr. Bui is paid. One of them is considered assistant administration. How many do we need?
Even the staff has given the board a list of money saving ideas that included eliminating the technology administrator position.
As was stated in a previous post, there are extremely few of these positions in the entire state. Why do we need this? Recall that Dr. Nelson pushed to bring Mr. Bui here.
Where do we go from here when the decision makers have made their decisions before even hearing the taxpayers ideas?
There is a committee meeting tomorrow discussing monies that go toward the special ed program/cooperative. Perhaps there are cost savings to be had there.
Have new special ed teachers received sign on bonuses the last few years? If so, how much and where did that money come from?
We need to know where ALL the money is being spent to offer more suggestions.
The teachers work very hard in Waterford and, in spite of the school board, squeeze the very best of our children. If some on this forum cannot see the value this adds to the community (and, oh by the way, your property values), then that cannot be helped. No matter.
I do, however, suspect that the same ignorance exhibited by a few here is reflected in the insolence of their children, significantly contributing to behavior problems at school and headaches for teachers. But I digress.
There are places in the WGSD for cuts to be made. Tech admin should be number one since there are other staff members who can do the majority of the work. Add to this the fact that his is one of less than ten such positions like it in the state and this is a no brainer.
I still think discretionary spending should be next on the list.
Extra-curriculars after that (how many voiced opposition to this at the forum? None.)
I agree maintaining class size recommendations is appropriate -- even if it means redistricting.
How about turning the thermostats down one degree in winter? Simple suggestions like this can save lots of money over the long haul.
And the silence on advocating for a new math program is deafening. It's a stupid idea made more idiotic by the budget issues.
Finally, here's a wild idea: why aren't we raising the same hell with the high school? I see money wasted there hand over fist, yet the graded district receives all the scrutiny. Very odd...
Well said Silas.
As for the WUHS, I agree there too. The problem is that it is madening trying to keep up with one grossly out of control spending school district that there isn't much time for the WUHS.
I'd bet you would have great support if you ran for the high school board...what do you say?
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